A body builder's goal is to chisel the perfect physique. The next is to maintain that perfection in some form. In the past few years, Soy and Splenda have really hit the market. Why?

We need to find out. Dig deep. Search for what is really going on.

Two things.
1. Soy has not been what it is marketed to be. There are far more dangers and side effects. Some can be fixed, other may never be, which would include feeding it to children.

2. Splenda, is it really safe? In some areas, Splenda may be just as bad as Aspartame. Some say you're better off just taking in refined sugar. Just cut back.

Research and post your findings. I will post mine later.

Funny...you post this....

One of my training partner's mother is a serious diabetic. He saw me putting splenda on my oats after our leg session on Saturday, he was shocked I use it.

He said when his mother used it her glucose would get all out of whack. He said something about the body thinking there is sugar there and still releasing insulin, but there isnt any sugar to uptake. I dont know if his explanation is accurate, but he said it completely used to throw her off.

Does that mean the same for a healthy individual, I dont know. But, as Im gettin stricter on my diet, January 1, is no more cheats for the Northern, Im switching to Stevia. Course, this stuff is in your protein powders, so you cant completely escape it unless you go to all whole foods, which I might try the final weeks.

The main reason I posted without links or details is, we all need to dig in and find our healthy common ground. Rather than being the info-provider, I'm wanting some serious input from others. It may be as serious as cutting years off our life.

One point: Soy and it's phytoestrogens can spark cancers, espectially if you've already been diagnosed.

2nd point: Soy can reduce testosterone.

3rd point: Splenda blinds the mind and can actually increase the appetite.

Ok...enough hints.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank:
One point: Soy and it's phytoestrogens can spark cancers, espectially if you've already been diagnosed.

2nd point: Soy can reduce testosterone.

3rd point: Splenda blinds the mind and can actually increase the appetite.

Ok...enough hints.

For your three points, do you have links to the studies that were done to prove the points? I don't doubt your points 1 and 2, but I'd like to dig in further. Your third point is a bit weak - appetite is relative. For instance, I can chew a piece of gum and suppress my appetite for 1 - 2 hours; this doesn't work at all for a lot of people. I've never experienced increased appetite from Splenda.

Of course I have links. The point is an exercise. I am hoping others will look, and it just seems as though no one really wants to look. On the net, you'll find both sides, which means, there's ANOTHER SIDE.

Dr. Mercola, Dr. Wm Douglass and other whistle blowers stating there's more harm than good, especially if you want to do as said, "replace 1:1".

These doctors were arguing about the use of other foods and additives a few years back. Later, I found articles in the paper to back up what they've spoke about, which included floride and floridation.
I don't go with everything they say as gospel, but I listen.

Splenda is actually promoted. Use and abuse. How much are you throwing into your body? Some may be ok...such as the chewing gum. Chew 60 pieces in a day, there's going to be a difference.

You have people taking in the same amount of Splenda or sucralose as if they were using sugar and others MORE, because it is believed to be ok, and calorie free, so people will use MORE. I can easily say that I do know people consuming nearly a cup per day. After all, Americans on the average consume more than 150 lbs of sugar per year.

Appetite relative? Yep. It will depend on your daily intake, period.

Since I have stopped diet drinks, Splenda and watching/reading more labels, I am gaining control of my "hunger".

Since I was lead to believe Splenda was "better", I drank about 1 64 liter Diet Coke, used "sugar-free" products, especially during the off-season because I doubled up.

My appetite was so out of control, 1 hour after eating breakfast, I was starving. So, I drank more Diet Coke, drinking less water.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank,

Ever try mixing alot of Soy with a sugar sweetner like suclarose = gas explosion

Are you talking wind surfing on a calm day?

Speaking of...

The amount of Splenda/sucralose is not required to be placed on the label. How much is in a 12 oz Diet Coke? In a regular Coke, figure if it has 160 calories, it's all sugar. How many teaspoons? Divide by 4, that's how many grams. If it is 1:1 with Splenda or whatever they add, imagine how much you're injesting!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank,

Thanks for posting this, great information. I know that I've used way too much Splenda. I'll certainly think twice now before I use it.

I have Stevia that I've been adding to my green tea. Any opinions on Stevia?

Yo Frank,

I think we talked about Soy last year too in the forum. I had posted that I didn't really do any research but that the bodybuilding mags (shamefull, I know, why read that ****, right?) were touting it as a protein as great if not better than whey.....Well fast forward to this year. ALL the mags are now saying that soy is harmful. In particular, that it is harmful to men and WOMEN. In fact, that it is not helpful at all to women as many tout. Too much estrogen is not a good thing in women either, especially when trends show now a days that many women are producing an abundance of estrogen (leading to weight gain, fatigue, etc.). It goes on and on.... Again, haven't put too much time into researching Soy, I have just stuck to whey.

Random question though, Frank, have your readings led you only to protein derived from Soy beans as a culprit or soy products in general(ex. soy sauce, Natto cheese, etc.)?

But Splenda on the other hand, artificial/non-nutritive sweetners in general, are all NOT GOOD for you in anyway. I've read a ton on it, but I'm not going to take up too much space on it (there's just too much, and this isn't the place to poste a research paper) except to say what I see is that they are considered 'safe' as long as they: don't kill you quick (i.e. it takes years before your body is affected); and that most American lifestyles and diets are poor enough that you cannot link any ailments that may have come from a high ingestion of artificial sweetners; and it seems that arguments for 'safety' that hold up are 'it's not toxic as long as you don't eat this much in X amount of time and no person can eat THAT much' though the issue is that it still is toxic (and everyone is different in terms of how long it takes before they are affected).

And one of the shadiest artificial sweetners is Acesulfame-K (sorry Bev Int). A lot of the basis behind it's 'safe rating' was "hey, France has been using it for years, so it's safe" but it wasn't even tested to the standards that the FDA sets out. It is usually not a stand alone artificial sweetner, it is usually used to enhance the sweetness of other artificial sweetners....which means it is in pretty much EVERYTHING that has an artificial sweetner in some way. It is one of the artificial sweetners of which I read is toxic in high amounts, but is potrayed as being safe because we could never eat THAT much of it ever in a sitting or a short period of time.

Personally, I only use Sucanant. Natural, nicer on the blood sugar, and the key is use it in moderation. At least I know what happens if I eat too much!!

Sorry, still turned out to be a long post. Definitely do as Frank suggests and read some on your own. Posts are good for quick questions and to get the word out and such, but for true knowledge and understanding, you really gotta get out there and use the posts as a starting point to get some info.

Later!

Guys - I love this board and everyone's help, but being a teacher and trying to tell people to go look for themself lends little creditbility to your argument. I'm not sure what your point is by doing this; put a link on here if you don't want to list the entire article. I have not read anything that has been posted on this topic here that proves that Splenda is harmful.

I did some reading on my own; the best link (http://www.splendaexposed.com/) didn't do much to persuade me to think it is harmful either. I agree that everything must be taken in moderation, even water can kill you if you drink too much of it. That being said, the short-term drawbacks of Splenda have not affected me; until they do, I'm going to keep eating it. The long-term effects are purely speculation. Here's the other side of hte coing - Splenda's site dedicated to education (http://splendatruth.com/page.jhtml?id=splendatruth/include/splenda_safety.inc)

quote:

I agree that everything must be taken in moderation, even water can kill you if you drink too much of it.

That's just it. There's no way you can tell how much you're taking in other than by the packaged that you'll use, that is, if you measure. They have to list how much sugar, carbs, but not artificial sweeteners.

How much Splenda/sucralose are you taking in?
What is moderation if you can't measure?

Edit: "...tell people to go look for themself lends little creditbility to your argument."

There's no argument other than a posting. It's an invitation to research if someone would like and questioning whether it is safe or not. As for it being ok and FDA, ATF, etc., tabacco is still sold. That being said, is tabacco bad?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank,

This doesn't make any sense by my math (not my strong suit), but per Splenda via FDA...
"FDA has set the acceptable average daily intake level at 5 mg per kg of bodyweight per day, and other regulatory agencies around the world have set the average acceptable daily intake level as high as 15 mg/kg of bodyweight per day. As a matter of course, regulatory agencies set average acceptable daily intake levels for new food ingredients at levels approximately 100 times below levels found safe in representative animal species, to further assure safety. In representative species, sucralose has been found safe, with effectively life-time consumption, in amounts equivalent in sweetness to over 40 pounds of sugar per day for the average adult."

If you do the math, at 83 kilos of body weight (190lbs), you can consume ~450mg of splenda per day - that's roughly half of one packet!...I'm gonna call Splenda on Monday and get clarification, and I'll let you guys know what I find.

This summer, I was consuming on average per week:

1 box of Splenda (3.8)
Diet Coke and other diet drinks - 8 liters
Sugar-free syrup
sugar-free snacks
sugar-free gum

Now...ice cream "no sugar added" How is it sweet?

As it got colder, sugar-free cocoa.

A newsletter had an article about Splenda. I did some research and was blown away. Other than the boxes I bought, I had no idea how much I was taking in.

I still have a Diet Coke once in a while, but not like 3 every day at work, then at home guzzling.

My biggest problem with Splenda is that it is advertised as "made from sugar".

It may be just as safe as nitroglycerin because it's made from vegetable oil.

Hey all,

I guess if some of you just want a site to look at, here is one that gives a pretty good run down. This site just gives a pretty good summary, it's not the FDA or a govt agency or anything like that (though, that definitely doesn't mean that it is wrong)it is not the ONLY one I have read but from what I have read, it's summary is accurate. This is one of the sites I give to my friends to read, because I know my friends don't care all too much about their health (I'm working on them) and so if I give them something too long or too technical, they won't read it.

http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-sweeteners.html
(scroll down to find sucralose in this article)

And here is just a good site on sweetners that is also very general that is a quick reference when I read lablels. Again, this is ONE site, and it is a quick read (only a short section on stevia, if interested in stevia, you should read something more in-depth than this).

http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Information/Fitness/sugar.htm
(however, this site does not include sucralose or neotame)

And yeah, that 'made from sugar' quote is a bit misleading. I'm not a technical or math person by any means, but from what I understand, they add a chloride molecule to sucrose, which makes it a different substance which retains it's sweetness, but is metabolized differently in the body. It is essentially, chlorinated sugar (now that sounds tasty!!)

And here is a run down on splenda/sucralose for those of you who don't want to search around and want a little more info about splenda. I prefer to find out for myself, but I can understand that some people just want an answer:

"Though marketed in the U.S. as a “No calorie sweetener,” Splenda actually contains about 86% the calories as the same mass of sugar (331 calories per 100 g vs. 387 calories per 100 g for sugar).[6] However, since Splenda is about 14.5% as dense as sugar, a given volume of Splenda has 12.4% the energy of the same volume of sugar.[7] When sucralose is added directly to commercial products, the filler is omitted and no energy is added.

Note too that although the “nutritional facts” label on Splenda’s retail packaging states that a single serving of 0.5 gram (1 teaspoon or 5 milliliters) contains zero calories, Splenda actually contains 1.66 calories per teaspoon.[8] Note that the individual, tear-open packages as shown at right are double-size, one-gram servings, which contain 3.31 calories. Such labeling is appropriate in the U.S. because the FDA’s regulations permit a product to be labeled as “zero calories” if the “food contains less than 5 calories per reference amount customarily consumed and per labeled serving.”[9] Because Splenda contains a relatively small amount of sucralose, little of which is metabolized, virtually all of Splenda’s caloric content derives from the highly fluffed dextrose or maltodextrin filler, or carrier, that gives Splenda its volume. Like other carbohydrates, dextrose and maltodextrin have 3.75 calories per gram."

Ok, so after turning this into a bit of a research paper for you all, what about the soy issue? I'm curious to hear your thoughts, Frank on Soy Sauce . I've only read a little on Soy protein, but I have some vegetarian friends of whom I would like to inform if it really is a risk. I'll be reading some more for myself as I await your answer .

Later all!!!

XRugger

Oh yeah, and thoughts on Lecithin, which are also derived from soy.

I'm with xavier as for moderation. For me, soy sauce is perhaps once every 3 weeks, on average.

Authentic soy sauces are mixed with yeast or kōji (麹, the mold Aspergillus oryzae or A. sojae) and other related microorganisms. Authentic soy sauces are made from whole soybeans, but many cheaper brands are made from hydrolysed soy protein instead. These soy sauces do not have the natural color of authentic soy sauces and are typically colored with caramel coloring.

In addition, traditionally soy sauces were fermented under natural conditions, such as in giant urns and under the sun, which was believed to contribute to additional flavours. These days most of the commercially-produced counterparts are fermented under machine-controlled environments instead.

It seems if it is made in the good ole US of A, it's probably not that good for you.

As for lecithin, there was once upon a time it was a derivitive of animal fat or blood parts (imports) and naturally egg yolks, soy and leaning toward sunflower oil. If it's processed, there's very little chance of getting away from it (soy).

There seems to be a movement away from soy lecithin. We'll see.

Even Beverly is using a measure of soy.

Here's a couple of links:

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/lecithin.html

A new one I just found:

http://www.wholesoystory.com/

Soy and Splenda have the "some is good, more is ok or better," subliminal message. As I had stated earlier in this thread, I was consuming quite a bit of sucralose/Splenda.

Americans, especially vegetarians/vegans may consume 6-10 times more soy on a daily average than Japanese or Asians where the soy comparison originates (soy being healthy...less cancers, etc.).

I can't wait to start about hydrogenated oils on another topic.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank,

I called Splenda today (800-SPLENDA), and they were very helpful...every 1g of Splenda has 12mg of sucralose. I also asked them to put this information on their website and packaing (doubt either will work, but it can't hurt). The only way J&J will know this stuff matters is if we call and let them know - the more information on what we're consuming, the better.

Looking at the quote from my earlier post from the FDA, it looks like you can use a significant amount of Splenda daily without any adverse effects. So, I'd say Splenda is quite alright your coffee and on your sweet potatoe.

Thank you xavier for your input. Personally, I have elected to withdraw from the use of Splenda/sucralose. It seems artifical sweeteners have been a problem since cyclamate was banned for humans back in 1970.

The positive note is it help make the deciding factor for my carbonated drink withdrawl. I've begun to accept water.

As for soy, I am personally contacting nutritionist/doctors that speak negatively. This is for my family research because 5 of them use soy and soy products.

Im sticking with my Stevia. Other than the trace amounts in my protein powder, I stay clear of this stuff now. I think whats in the protein is considered moderation, but adding 1-2 packs of this stuff in your coffee, tea, on oats, and sweet potatos is not a good idea.

Anyways.....

One of the most successful TX body builders that competed as a lightweight...SHREDDED all year, he used stevia and introduced it to me back in 2000. I've never really used it, but reading about it, it may be a body builder's best friend in more ways than just a sweetener.