Just back from Pitt and wanted to say nice job Brochas on taking the womans overall. It was tough compitition and you looked awsome. Frank, nice to meet you as well. It was a nice surprise when my wife came backstage and told me another Beverly bodybuilder was in the audiance and wanted to talk to me. Thanks. As for me I won the masters short and mens open short, and almost took the overall to a really awsome tall class winner. Speaking to the judges after I was told how difficult it was. It was a great show! Hats off to the OCB.

Now onto the question. VA Maddog, I was alot sharper again but for two weeks in a row I ran into the same problem in the finals, cramps-bloating and a slight spillover. Not a problem if all I was doing was posing and going home, but each week I was neck and neck for the overall with someone else and I faded and cramped. I think it may be too much water between the prejudg and night show. Or the ratio of potassium to sodium as I was adding sodium back just before prejudge. I also had a bar at prejudge both times and drop all bars at 16 weeks. I use the bars in place of honey/pb/ultrasize mix, but did not think this would effect me 6 hours later? I kept the meals between to beef and g/f and chicken and 1/2 sweet potato. I have no idea if I'll make it to the finals at the nationals, but if I get lucky I do not want a repeat, so any ideas would be appreciated. Anyway, thanks for the help so far its nice to know I can come to Beverly for help when needed.

Sully

Sulcop

Congrats!

I have noticed the same thing. Morning I am crisp and evening I start smoothing out.

How much of this can be due to the fact that we are a bit dehydrated BUT not too dehydrated (flat) when we wake up in the AM?

How much water did you have between prejudging and the evening show?

Water or lack there of could lead to smoothing over and the cramping. Not enough water, lots of protein, the grapefruit, quite the diuretic effect, etc and it is easy to end up too dehydrated and flat.

I guess part of where I am going with this is are we smoothing out and retaining more water or are we passing more water and ending up flat?

OK

I did not answer the question but hope to get some discussion going on the topic.

Ray

Sully - Outstanding job! My hat is already off to you for hitting it right two weeks in a row.

Need a little more info from you. Can you detail exactly how much sodium you took in and when? Also give me the same info regarding potassium and any diuretics. Also what was your water/liquid intake on Saturday.

My inclination is to suggest taking some extra strength maalox on Sat every couple of hours to reduce bloating and GI discomfort. Need to keep potassium intake moderate to high, but not real high.

I am surprised to hear that you had cramping problems. Normally if you have enough potassium intake and keep water in that should be a combination to avoid any cramping.

How do the last two experiences compare to your previous pre-contest runs? In other words, have you had the same issues with cramping and smoothing over before or was it different this time?

It is tough to maintain your morning condition for the night show. Almost everyone will begin to smooth over a little. One of the draw backs to trying to manipulate things for the morning, is that ANY manipulation will have both an initial and a rebound reaction. If done right the initial reaction is timed just right so that you look your best for prejudging, it is much more difficult to predict the timing of the rebound reaction. For example, when you start to smooth over a little. You do want to try to stay in a state of diuresis all day on Saturday so that your body continues to eliminate extra water. The protein bar could be enough to affect your GI tract negatively and some have a ton of sodium in them.

Oh - And a big congratulations to Brochas too!

VA MadDog

Hey Sully.. You hang in there.. go for the third one - and keep it up! I missed FRANK! Oh no.. I never went out front after the show.. even forgot my music (CD).. I, too, noticed looking more smooth for the evening show. And I played it safe with only beef/grapefruit for 2 meals before night show. I hope you can resolve the issue by Sat. for Nationals. I am cramped too by evening show. I didn't cramp for a.m. prejudge but by evening I get foot cramps. I wish you the best of luck Sean.. you looked awesome on Sat..and I felt you won the overall..!! you should've got it!! hang in there.. keep us posted!!

Thanks Val, it was close and Mike is a former National champ so if I gave him a run then perhaps thats a sign that I'll do ok next weekend. You looked great, and congrats again.

EFX & VA,

I kept my water at 2.5 gals all through. Menue was TH am 8 eggs-3 yolks,#2 chick and 1/2 gf, 3-5 was chick and sweet potato. Friday was beef and g/f all day and no added sodium on TH or FR. SA was beef and g/f am, detoure bar 1 1/2 hours out and the carbo force mix pre pump. I had about 20 oz water spread throug the AM. After prejudge I had chicken and 1/2 g/f and later some beef. I had almost a gallon of water and added salt to my foods. My potassium was at around 2Xhr all day FR and SA till pre judge. I took a nap and missed a few hours but took 3 upon rising and another 3 at the venue. I kept some water in but got cramps and bloat shortly after arriving and had noting again until after the show.

Sully

Sully

Have you considered bumping the potassium to 3 per hour Friday afternoon through Saturday?

Sodium wise.... I have always been under the impression that he body will adjust to a change in electrolyte balance, ie return to normal, in about 36 hours. What would happen if you kept some sodium in on Thursday and then cut back on Friday and Saturday having on some pre pump up on Saturday and no more?

If you were cramping, to me it sounds like you are still pushing too much water and potassium through. Again can this be the diuretic effect of the foods eaten the last two days?

I would not go with a bar pre pump up. Their quality just can not be trusted. This may or may not contribute to a positive or negative change in your conditioning, but we will never be able to know for sure.

Congrats on your placing!

Ray

Hi Sully - Since you don't mention any other natural diuretics other than the GF you might want to add that in starting on Wednesday and keep them in through Sat night.("C" and taraxatone are both good)

I'll agree With Ray - deep six the protein bar. Stick with the safe foods that your body has gotten used to the last two days.

I'm inclined to stay with no sodium on Th and Fri and on Sat drop the added sodium from your post pre-judging meals. I'd also decrease the amount of water intake after pre-judging to perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 of the gallon that you drank. That should still be plenty to keep you full.

Seems to me that you are getting plenty of potassium from the supps and the yams so I remain perplexed as to why you are having some cramping. If you have not been taking a calcium/magnesium supp you might want to add that in starting on Wed. That also helps keep electrolytes in balance. Some mild cramping indicates that you are right on the edge of where you want to be with water so it is not necessarily a bad thing.

If you are not already doing so - keep your legs elevated as much as possible on Sat during your down time. That will help to keep them from smoothing over.

That is about all I can think of. These are all small adjustments. Your other option is to just stay with what you have been doing as it has obviously been working well for you especially for pre-judging which is still the most important time frame. I would certainly recommend against any significant changes in your approach at this point in the game.
Try to relax and get some rest - avoid that evil cortisol that comes from being stressed out!

Best of luck for week three! You realize that many of us who have competed are sitting back thinking - "Boy I wish that I had Sully's problem" - i.e. how to stay sharp for the evening overall - You should feel very good about your placings - keep up the great work!

VA MadDog

Sully.. you are going to have to write that BOOK after this.. you will have it down to the exact science needed to come in sharper than a tack.. you were already ripped and awesome from last week. I did two .. I don't know how you are hanging on for 1 more.. but it's the right way to do it.. you should be more defined, harder and sharper than ever for Nationals.. I hope what you are getting from the board is a help to you!! I, too, smoothed over for the night show.. so - I'm interested to see what works for you. I'll be thinking and sending up a prayer for you.. you are a true champion.. hang in there Sean!!

Thanks all,

VA I was using the same diuretics as mentioned, and I elivated my "C" from 1 gram on Tues to 6 on Friday. I am going to nix the bar and go with a sweet potato and dip six the sodium except for the small ammount in the carboplex mix. I will also reduce the water, I just lost track and before I knew it a gallon was gone. I'll stick to about 1/3 as thats what I have done in the past. ETX, I may bump the potassium up as my body weight is 8lbs more this year then last and that puts me in the 168 range. Last years nationlas I was 159 so I went with the -160# reccomendations. Oh, and Val did you see the OCB site, we are on the front web page and you look awsome!

Sully

Sounds like a logical approach Sully. I don't see anything in your plan that should hurt your conditioning, and some of the minor changes may help you stay closer to your pre-judging condition for the evening show.

The human body is a wonderfully complex thing. Even if you would do exactly the same thing again, you might or might not get exactly the same response. To a certain extent the last day requires an intuitive approach where you need to be open to minor adjustments as the day progresses. This works best with someone like yourself who has done this many times before and who has a good feel for how their body reacts and how they look and feel. I have every confidence that you will do well and be able to hit your peak again. We'll be interested in seeing more of your pics after you get them back. Glad to have you on the board. You'll have to stick around and share some of your experience as time goes on.

VA MadDog

VA,

I have been comming to the Beverly site for years, so I am not going anywhere. I have just kept quiet and followed the posts as I feel there is a great deal of knowledge here and I really did not know how much I could contribute. I'll be glad to send some photos over, just need a e-mail address and would be glad to outline my entire approach this year. Brochas and I were talking about sending something to Rodger if he was interested.

Sully

They are always interested in positive stories and I'm sure that either of you could write something up that would be of interest to others. You have an email from me at your work email address.

How could that be? - Sully thinks to himself...

Take care.

VA MadDog

Hey Sully.. Yeah.. I saw the site! Wow.. that Matt is some guy.. how impressive is that .. he has the results & pics posted the DAY after the show!! And.. do the story for Bev.. Mark already told me he wants one from me.. and I'll bet he would beg one from you.. with 3 in a row!! now.. HIT that final peak week right on and go for the OVERALL .. you are gonna be so on!! Val

Sully,

I picked all the places correctly, and that was night show only. I didn't see the prejudging. Brochas had on competitor I thought was going to give her trouble, but she aced that one! I didn't agree with the judges on the overall. I felt you had it. I didn't know who you were, so I can't say that vote was biased. It wasn't until a few seconds before the posed down was over when I heard your wife shout out, "SULLY!".

VA, I think Sully's cramping in the lower GI was the bar and agree to keep with the safe foods.

Sully, bring back the big one this weekend!

Frank