I was reading an article about Markus Ruhl. He mentioned that a huge turning point in his results was not overtraining muscles, which brought up my question.

How can you tell you are overtraining your muscles? I read some weight lifting routines and i think to myself, "that is all you do for chest (bi's, tri's, legs,......)" I usually do my biceps alone one day cause i don't think i can put all of my effort or train them 100% if i mix them in with another body part. lately i do arms all together and find it works pretty good, but my workouts are really long.

Ok, sorry for the tangent. How can you tell if you are over training a specific muscle too much in a training session. Thanks

A couple of points here.

Ive been told you cant overtrain a particular muscle group, but you can certaintly overtrain the CNS.

I think this is mainly true. How can you tell the CNS is overtrained. Here are the symptoms Ive come to recognize in my 6 years of training.

1) Lack of motivation to train
2) Trouble sleeping soundly
3) Cant get a pump in the gym
4) Feeling stringy or strung out, sort of like a hangover without the headache

How to implement this. In my experience if I have a lagging msucle group Im trying to bring up I can train it 3-4 times a week, back off on the rest of my body for that time period, and if I dont experience these symptoms Im not overtraining my body. This has worked well for me. See what others have to say,

Jason--

Jason Theobald

www.geocities.com/chezburger10/JASONTHEOBALDBIO.html

Overtraining is definitely tricky.

I agree that at one level, the items that Jason listed all contribute to the diagnosis. If I find suddenly I am not so excited to go train, or not looking forward to it, feeling tired, etc, then I am probably due for a break.

However, sometimes I have found that simply changing the protocol of training helps in those situations.

Really, it takes a variety of methods to determine if you are overtraining. For me, I have kept detailed training logs for the past 4 years of my off-and-on training. I found things like extremely high volume sets require 7 - 10 days between sessions for me to see optimal strength increases, while shorter volume sessions allow me to train the same muscle 2 or 3 times in a week. I have learned that I can train up to 3 days in a row (different body parts) but 4 days burns me out despite rotating body parts. I found that I usually need to take a break from training every 8 - 12 weeks unless I purposes incorporate a week or two of training under my full potential in order to "extend" the training out.

This is highly individual but by keeping good logs and tracking your progress both in measurements and strength, you will find how it works best for you.

Personally, I know a lot of people say you must train arms directly or not train arms when in fact I have found it is like all other training - it is the variety. TRaining arms up to 2 times per week directly is useful to a point, then it's time to do them once a week and sometimes the right stimulus is to not involve them directly at all. This is all under the concept of periodization.

Jeremy

Stepper2 - I'll come at this from a different angle. You seem to indicate that your routine is high volume and that your workouts are really long. It is natural to feel that if some exercise is good, more is better. However, as a natural BBer you have to be very careful about allowing enough time for recovery and thus for growth. JT hits on this when he says that your Central Nervous System (CNS) needs time to recover between intense exercise sessions.

It is funny that you mention Markus Ruhl - who most certainly is a big steroid user, and even he says not to train so much. Steroid users can train more, and more often and not suffer from some of the negatives that natural athletes have to be cognizent of. If a natural athlete over trains he/she will be using/burning up muscle as fuel (catabolism), steroid users have less concern about this.

There are many workout strategies on this board and on the BI web site that will point you in the direction of "less is more" when it comes to training volume. (Check out fitdocs routine as one example)

Aim for fewer sets and fewer exercises per body part. Consentrate more on the intensity of what you do, and get enough rest in between sessions and I think that you will be pleasantly surprised with the progress that you will make. The other advantage is that if you take a day off between every workout day you are spending less time in the gym and have more time for other activities - plus it may just work better for you! What a deal.

VA MadDog

Great advice everyone! VA MadDog, I also find it ironic that Markus Ruhl mentions over training. Bye the looks of that guy and his steriod use you would think he could work out for hours on end.

I used arms as an example because when i do biceps, I do as many sets as it takes to reach failure. Get the muscle to the point where you go, ok, i can't do anymore weight. Get the burn, get assistance with the last rep, and stop when you can't really do another exercise correctly with good form.

I am not concentrating on over training in week intervals. That is, i am not doing arms (for example) 3 times a week. I do give sufficient recovery time. I referencing over training in a single training session.

When you weight train you break down the muscle. Some times i get SO sore I wonder if i am breaking them down too far. Or if i give them sufficient recovery time does it even matter how big of a whooping i give a muscle.

I never associate how soar I get as to whether Im overtraining. If Im feeling good otherwise and ready to go at it the next time, then I think Im on the right track.

Jason

Jason Theobald

www.geocities.com/chezburger10/JASONTHEOBALDBIO.html

I completely agree that soreness is not a good measure on how "well" you worked a muscle. But you have to admit, the day after a good workout and you feel a bit sore you feel good inside. On the flip side, sometimes i might be a little too much. Some people laugh at me going up stairs at work.

I have to go with jeremy on this one tracking my progress over the years has been the best indicator. A written log is best we tend to forget what happen several days ago in the gym.

I keep track of every workout reps weights etc. When I cycle back to that bodypart I know how good my last workout was by my performance on the current one. Soreness is definately not a good indicator but many who have been doing it for years get a phsycological boost from that feeling that sets in aout 36 hours later.

As a final note some of my best lifts have come after about a 7- 10 day complete rest.
I have now started to track monthly weight and measurements. real numbers can help seperate a lazy day from a overtraining period.

It seems I read some where Frank Zane use to measure bodyparts after every set (for a period)to determine how many sets he should do before his size began to shrink. He was very studiuos and feared overtraining.

Jon

The mental aspect is certainly true, when you start overtraining you will lose your desire to be in the gym (no motivation). Also if you take your temperature between 9AM and 7PM and it consistently reads LOW (it should be 98.6, so if it reads 98, 97.8, 97.4, etc and you notice a trend of lower temps you are likely overtraining). Important to take your temp at least 15 mintues before or after eating and drinking so your food content and temp don't affect readings. Overtraing is especially prevalent went dieting so becareful. With rest or increased calories or both your temp will rise and you can start training again.

PS Certain disease states also affect temp, so if you feel your doing everthing right and your temp is still low (and you are always cold, lethargic, depressed etc) you should see your MD.

Over-training is a no-brainer. If you are not getting stronger from workout to workout then you show signs of over-training.

Most body-builders use the same poundages, with the same amount of reps, and quite frankly then don't grow.

www.highintensitytraining.net