Fellow BI Users, this a forum to reach out for help. I know this message is quite long, but I wanted to be as detailed as possible. I am taking one last solid attempt to strengthen my body before sitting down with a neurologist to discuss spinal fusion surgery. I am 28 years old, have degenerative disc disease, some form of systemic arthritis (think of it as a cross between osteoperosis, rhuematoid and fibromyalgia), as well as Klinefelters. My first disc exploded (literally) when I was 22 and I have been trying to keep surgery off ever since. I am not into sports, nor have ever been able to play as this has been an issue my entire life. Although I did used to swim (and was dang good at it!)


I have been working out for the last 7 years for the goal of decreasing overall pain. I was able to hit the goal, but within the last 2 years I have had 3 discs bulge, arthritis spread to all joints including my feet, and gained about 20 lbs of fat.

I would love to get some feedback on "off the beaten path" exercises/ regiments. My main goals now are to lose about 15lbs of fat, strengthen my legs, back, and increase overall balance. Basically, injury prevention while losing body fat and increasing lean muscle mass.

I understand that no advice here is to be taken as medical advice. I am just looking to see if anyone has any exercise ideas, theories, etc to help me improve my regiment.

A bit about my current regiment:
- Eat 6 small meals a day, have been for the past 4 years. I have received diet info from Brian Wiefering (sp?) and am able to readily follow this without any issue. Each meal is low fat, with a target of 35g protein and 20g carbs. I taper carbs off after 3pm as I work out in the morning at 5.
- I gain weight very easily, especially if I increase carb intake.
- 6 foot 5, 238 lbs (heavy up top with thinner legs - this has always been the case, even when I swam - most likely due to hormonal imbalances)
- started to take creating, glutamine, density, and quadracarn in hopes for faster soft tissue recovery between workout days. Today was my last loading day.
- I am very well versed in proper form; and diet / bodybuilding in general. The main problem is that all literature and regiments assume the user is healthy.
- if it would help, I can send a spread sheet of my current regiment. I try to hit back and legs twice per 8 day cycle.

Things that have worked thus far:
- Super setting as much as possible -- it decreases chances of injury via less need for heavier weights; and gets me a good pump/increased heart rate.
- HIIT elliptical -- cardio has become VERY difficult with my foot arthritis (turf toe). Some days I cannot put pressure on my foot/feet, while others I can. I have been about to build up to walking 1 mile a day. Biking, rowing, walking, elliptical all create pain. I know swimming is another option, but a pool isnt exactly easy to get into with my work/living schedule...although it is quickly becoming the only option.
- I can do bodyweight squats, and squats/lunges/step ups with lighter weight (anything below 40lbs is "safe" for me). Same weight bearing applies to all vertical loading movements (Arnolds, military, shrugs, uprights, etc).


So, in a nutshell, I would like to reach out to the BI community for any opinions, ideas and comments. The medical community hasn't been able to do much, and I know excercise has been a tremendous help in the past. With even more daunting obstacles this year, I am hoping I can get new ideas from the team here.

Thanks for reading all this (I know it was long) - and hopefully others can get some ideas from this thread as well.

Thanks,
Medical_enigma

Hi,
You know I check these boards out every once in a while, but I actually signed up just so I could answer this one! I hope some of what I say can be helpful to you. I had serious back problems most of my adult life and have had three back surgeries (one full on open back lamenectomy and two laser surgeries). I nearly lost function of everything below my waist before my surgery--which was emergency surgery. I was diagnosed with something called Shumann's anamoly, or something like that as a kid and then had two discs explode at the the age of 30, after which I too was told I have degenerative disc disease. I've dealet with pain as a serious issue in my life and hope I can offer some solid advice to you. I know how frustrating it is to see workout programs listed chock full of squats and deadlifts when you know those things are an impossibility. I have two personal training certifications (cft, yft) and have been a bodybuilding fan my entire life, but my perspective on pain and back issues may be a bit unique, so without wasting any more time here's some things that have helped me.

First--nutrition must be spot on. This goes without saying here, I guess, but it may be more important to someone with back issues. You won't be going out doing wind sprints or mountain biking, so you need to be diligent with your calories and macros.

Training-wise, here's some ideas and insights:

--try pre-exhaustion techniques. Use the safer isolation movements first and you can use lighter weights on the big movements--you're body will still recognize it as pushing to your limits, but it may be safer for you.

--Despite the traditional physical therapists m.o. of more more more, follow the stimulate, don't annihilate rule.

--for the most part steer clear of the stupid stability balls. Most recent research is revealing what hardcore lifters have known all along--these silly balls actually cause less core muscels to activate than traditional positioning of exercises.

--don't worry about squats or deadlifts. Dorian Yates didn't even do squats for the bulk of his pro career. There's so many substitutes. Cann you handle leg presses? Cool. If not, try ball squata (one of the few good uses for the ball, but you don't sit on it, you put it against the wall and lean on it to perform squats). these have a unique angle and varying the foot spacing provides all kinds of new stimulation. 100 reps of thes with a narrow stance ain't for sissies. Also try weight belt squats--just hang the belt (the same kind you use for adding weight to dips) around your waist, with the chain length pretty short, and squat away safely, with no downward pressure on your spine, your hips carry all the strain. Also, front squats holding a dumbbell instead of a barbell, or step ups to a bench (if done right, again not for sissies) And don't worry about that 'butt to the floor' ****. Just follow the movement till the level where your lumbar area doesn't come out of whack.

--This will sound funny, but try to perform all exercises with a butt flex to where it's like trying to hold a coin between your butt cheeks. It is nigh impossible to lose form and hurt your back while doing this. It does sound silly though.

--For back training, try rows facing downward on an incline bench--no stress on your low back, and works your upper back almost just like bent rows.

--calves can be done really effectivley with a hip belt, too, rather than in a standing machine.

--take a look at Vince Gironda's training methods (his workouts, not so much exercise performance, as some of that info may be detrimental to you). He stressed speed of the overall workout, and really originated the whole '7's' concept that has been pilhered by some big name guys now. The workouts go really fast and the weights don't need to be so heavy, but it's a killer workout. you won't need heavy weights, but you'll be super pumped and breathing hard, I assure you.

I hope some of these ideas help, and I could probably go on, but I don't want to inundate you with too much stuff if it's not helpful. I'm not sure if you're looking for specific workouts or just general info, and I don't really want to write a novel and bore you. If you want any more info on any of this stuff, or if you think I might be able to help with any other questions, please let me know.

Mercury Studio - thank you so much for responding to this. I was worried I wouldn't get any answers for a while there! If you have any other information about this, please let it rip! I rely heavily on super sets and pre exhaust sets, and have been for years, its really the only way to get a pump or to push myself without worrying about the poundage. In regards to the coin squeeze - excellent! I have been doing more of a core squeeze anytime I pick up anything in a weight room (even on a machine). I will definately give the coin squeeze one a try!

Do you have suggestions for hitting the obliques? Currently my core work is comprised mostly of planks - either normal or off my knees depending on how I am feeling that day.

Leg extensions - I can do these, but I need to be very careful with my knees. I usually warm up with ham and quad extensions, then follow them with body weight squats, step ups, or walking lunges. Then do a uni lateral hamstring set at the end.

Leg Press on the other hand - I am a bit weary of these machines as I have very long legs = my back rounds out on the downward movement which is scary for me. The weight belt idea of squats - I thought I came up with that on my own! I have been thinking of doing this, and was playing around with a friend's belt.


Maybe a tip for you to try - I recently found doing Rope Cable Face pulls Super setted with Wide grip lat pull downs to be extremely effective. The face pull is great if you work on varying downward angles - really gets a great squeeze.


Also, I am very happy to know I am not insane - you have the same issues, and lifting has helped you. I was starting to thing I was actually doing more harm than good in recent weeks, as my symptoms have been going down hill.

Would you be available to lend any more information? I am just amazed that your story is so similar to mine and would love to hear more from you. Good luck in your exercise regiment!

Hi and sorry to not have replied in so long--we've been pretty busy here with hail storms! Anyway, glad that stuff helped a bit. Here's some quick thoughts about some of what you said--obliques--I do a kind of side raise where you lie on one side, lift both feet together a few inches off the ground and lower. If you can focus on the obliques doing all the work it's a great exercise, just try to do it slowly. A variation is to do one leg then the other, so if you're on your left side first you lift the right leg, then the left comes up to meet it and lower them in sequence too. There's tons of these in a book called Athletic Abs, which I got at Books and Co.
On leg extensions you may want to try simply never lowering the weight past a right angle. And the same goes for leg press, as far as range of motion--just reverse before your back begins to round. I rely tremendously on leg press doing all kinds of variations, like wide and high stance, extremley close stance, one leg etc.
Here's two other things that you might want to try (all this is just my experiance/opinion, of course)--stutter reps! If you google it you'll likely find a comprehensive explanation of them, but they are killer and there's no way you'll need a lot of weight. Also have you heard of strain/counterstrain? It's a form of PT that's really pretty amazing. I have not used it on my back but for a neck problem from repetitve motion injury. Despite it's name there's no strain involved, it's painless and very effective. In fact, I wish I'd have tried it before my 2nd surgery!
Anyway, keep at it, and be positive. I am pain free and even started doing deadlifts this week!

Mercury - thanks for the words of advice! I actually have started swimming recently, which although hard, is extremely affective at loosening up my back. You should give it a try if you have access to a pool. I bought a pair of FINIS gold zoomers - you can really nail your quads and hamstrings depending on if you kick on your back (hams) or stomach (quads). I have worked up to swimming 1 mile in 30 minutes, but am hesitant to add more yardage out of fear of blowing out my shoulders.

I have started adding more rotator isolation PT moves with bands and cables, which have been helping quite a bit. Some days are worse than others, but it is definitely better than 3 months ago!

I got a bit carried away in the gym on a higher volume day for arms, so am dealing with some acute elbow tendonitis, but it is getting better! I am going to tone down direct tricep work for the next few weeks, and focus on forearms and light tris until its a bit stronger.

I have done stutter sets in the past, they are brutal! I will check out the strain/counterstrain.

Things seem to be getting better, I have re arranged my workouts to better support my swimming, and it seems to be doing the trick - just need to be mindful of my other joint issues in the process.

If you try anything else, or hear of anything- please let me know. I am going to research that Athletic Abs book you mentioned, as my main safe Ab workout now is planks and oblique planks.

Again, thanks. I really appreciate it, I feel that I am the only person with this type of issue in the gym about 99% of the time, so it helps to hear advice from someone that has gone through it!

Side note:
Also, figured I would mention this - if you ever need a good ice pack. I picked up a dual strap, dual ice gel pack from DonJoy - its the kind they use in physical therapy. I would swear by this thing as you can wrap it and compress just about any body part (excluding larger circumferences like hips). I have also heard that a bengay type cream called BIOFREEZE is amazing as well. I don't mean to name drop here, but at the same time, if I find something that works, I am more than willing to share with others.


Thanks,
Steve

hello steve joined BI just to give you my reply on back problems and surgery.I ro have been suffering since i was 20.I am now almost 60 and a year and a half ago i had vertibrea fussion at l-3 and 4.Although it helped my pain and problems decrease,It did not abolish them.Also the Dr that did it did not tell me until after surgery that i now have a wieght lifting restriction of 35 pounds and will have the restriction the rest of my life.You need to ask questions like that prior to surgery as i did not.It never crossed my mind until my 2 yr old grandaughter said pick me up Grandpa.thank god she only wieghed 23 pounds at the time.It still bothered me for a few days afterward.So get everything up front,dont leave any rock unturned.

Hey All, Great subject! I am a 49 year old, soon to be 50, I have been a competitive bodybuilder for over 17 years. I have won state, and regional titles. I have competed in over 50 shows. I had back problems from day 1. For the most part it was L3-L4 bulging. I dealt with it and worked around it for many years until 2003, just when I was doing well in my bodybuilding career, my L3 ruptured, and sheered from the vertebra while doing squats. I had emergency surgery, and had it removed. My doctor said I would never compete again, and might not be able to do much heavy resistance training again. Well you know us driven, nutty , hardheaded bdybuilders, I was back up on stage in less than 5 months, and won my class at a NPC bodybuilding show. I have competed faithfully every year since, and will continue to in 2012, including to fulfill my all time goal of competing in the NPC Masters Nationals in july. I just wanted to reinforce with the continued drive, and desire, and safer, smarter training principles, you can continue to progress in the sport of bodybuilding, and life. Best of luck.. Big Bob. NPC Masters N.C. 04/06 INBF N.Y.S. Middlleweight champ in 01/05.