I am on a quest to get really really lean...just for myself...not for a show or anything. So I've been following my old precontest diet <standard five meals, grapefruit in the morning no oatmeal, two shakes, and carb ups Mon and Thurs nights, etc.> and have been getting results...thanks to some help I've received from fellow board members <I actually cut back my training and the fat started coming off..I was definitely overtrained>.

Now my questions are loaded technical ones:

1. How do you know when to switch from Choc MP to Vanilla MP when leaning out?
2. Other than a caloric difference, why does Vanilla MP make so much of a difference?

The reason I'm asking these Q's is I think I'll soon be at the point where making the switch to Vanilla will help but not sure if it is too soon.

What's the verdict?

<oh yeah, supplement wise: I'm definitely maxed out on those--lean outs, er, ghfact, 7keto, muscularity, U40's, glutslct, synrg...I got em all. I am a bevnut.>

thanks.

It is really just an issue of calories. The serving sizes are different (one scoop = 21g for vanilla) (one scoop = 30g for choc) The other differences are that one scoop of vanilla gets you 16g of Protein and 2g of Carbs, for Choc it is 22g of Protein and 5g of Carbs. With these differences the one scoop of Choc has 115 calories and the Vanilla has 80. The ingredient list for each is different as you would expect, since something has to be added to give you the chocolate flavor.

When to switch is more a matter of when and if you need to drop more calories from your diet plan. When you swithched away from US or UMP to MP you already significantly dropped calories and fat grams and so going from Choc MP to Van MP has less of an impact.

I AGREE WITH MADDOG!! I AGREE WITH MADDOG!!
Ha. I guess you can tell I like VA
Well, not really too much now. But..well..you know what I mean right? Ha. Right VA?

Er..uhm.. never mind *blush*

Actually, I see your point. It is mainly a caloric drop thing. I drink six scoops of MP a day, so if I was to switch to vanilla that would account for a drop of 210 calories...which is somewhat significant over a week period..don't you think?

Would the only way to justify dropping another level in calories be if fat loss had stagnated?...(oh yeah, I'm a cardiophobic...so that probably won't be part of my experiment).

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the new jars of Muscle Provider have different scoops which alters the calorie and nutrient count. One scoop of Vanilla MP is 110 cal 22gr pro 4gr carb 1gr fat. I think the numbers on the Cho MP is as VA states.

VA stockpiled the old jars of MP back in 1935, the year he began competing as a novice teen.

If anyone is pre-contest or looking to really get lean, a great PWO formula for the guys would be 3 scoops of MP with an additional 15 Muscle Mass Bcaa's. For the ladies I like to suggest 2 scoops of MP with an additional 8-10 Muscle Mass, and to facilitate the anabolic and fat burning process further, 6 GH Factor pre and 3 Energy Reserve post. The GHF and ER formula will work great for the guys also.

This will also expedite the recovery process immediately, which is so crucial when on a hypo-caloric diet.

Aram,

I'm going to try your suggestion for the guys. So far the advice I have taken from you has been right on the money...and I don't think I will make the switch...it doesn't seem (with the new numbers) that it will make much of a difference anyway.

Anyway, for me to use your advice, I'm going to need a little advice on how I am going to implement it. I've been neglecting PWO nutrition...a dip move My schedule just doesn't help the situation out.

Currently here's what I do:

8 a.m. meal one/leave for work
1030 meal two-shake
12p.m. meal three
3 meal four-shake
5 meal five
6 go home
7 workout/take some glutamine select
10-11 p.m. bed/ghfact

Some advice on how to switch things around so that i can try out your suggestion?

I forgot to add that pre-workout, I take a handfull of synergies and a handfull of Muscle mass and 1 7 keto.

Wow! You are taking a lot of supps. Looks like you want that real lean look and nut'n gonna stop you.

Well, unless I'm wrong, I see a simple solution here. It seems as if you have no PWO meal. Is that correct? Or did you just forget to list it.
Regardless, since you will retire a couple of hours after training, I would do the 3 scoops MP as your sixth meal.

Additionally, if you are taking Muscle Synergy pre workout, the addition of GH Factor would be irelavent. I would just take the GHF before bed as you are doing now.

I would go with the Muscle Mass and ER with the PWO MP, and upon awakening on training days only, I would take 12 Synergy along with another 12 before training. On OFF days from training, I'd cut out the Synergy, or reduce to 16...8 in the morning, and 8 half hour before your 5th or 6th meal.

quote:

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the new jars of Muscle Provider have different scoops which alters the calorie and nutrient count. One scoop of Vanilla MP is 110 cal 22gr pro 4gr carb 1gr fat. I think the numbers on the Cho MP is as VA states.

VA stockpiled the old jars of MP back in 1935, the year he began competing as a novice teen

Aram is correct as always - I used the MP nutritional info from the BI Supplement guide (Shame on Roger for not updating it and making me look bad.. I checked my NEW Van MP container and the scoop size and nutritional info is indeed as Aram explained.

But in the end I think that my explanation about the main impact of the switch to vanilla theory was tied to a calorie drop.

I also agree that a post work out meal of MP will not hurt you and will help stave off catabolism overnight. If you were not on a quest for getting even leaner I would also suggest adding in some natural peanut butter with the MP as that would make meal six digest more slowly and would also make it taste better - mmmmm natural peatnut butter.

I will do the extra shake on training days...(if not a carb up meal day...M or Thurs...usually I wait until after my workout for that)

With 6 ghf's in the morning as well, do you think the extra synergies in the morning help any?

That question was based on the comment that:

"Additionally, if you are taking Muscle Synergy pre workout, the addition of GH Factor would be irelavent. I would just take the GHF before bed as you are doing now."

Let me know.

I'm going to implement as early as tomorrow since my carbs are coming in tonight.

thanks guys...oh yeah and VA, I've tried the pb in the past, I love it too. Actually my fiance, got me hooked on for a while there...but that was a different phase of my bb life.

win,

A couple options with GHF:

1) On non-training days, eliminate the Synergy, take 6 GHF morning and nite.

2)If you plan on using Synergy every day, take 2 GHF 30 minutes prior to each of your 6 meals.

thanks aram