Is it essential to have zero startchy carbs in ones diet to need weekly carb ups? Im 8.5 weeks out and pretty lean at this point (7.5 % BF or so) and right now im at 1800 cals w/ a refeed day on leg day that is about 2100 cals. My diet is about 50/20/30. Im training mon-fri w/ 40 min LISS pwo and 50 min morning LISS on the weekends. The refeed on mondays seemed to work really well for a bit but it feels like my metabolism is burning out before I make it to that once weekly refeed. My question is, would it be appropriate to do a twice weekly Bev type carb up meal even though I still have some startchy carbs in my diet?

Yes, we have many Beverly nutrition plans that include complex carbs daily along with an added carb up meal twice weekly. It has been incorporated by those with fast metabolisms throughout their entire contest prep; but really works best when bodyfat is very near contest level with 3-6 weeks to go.

Remember, however, you have to be ripped for a contest, and getting ripped the first time is much more difficult than once you've been there.

Your supplement program is also very important in allowing you to burn the fat while still recovering. We just saw a study where Glutamine Select restored glycogen more effectively than 60 g of simple carbs.

The science behind the Beverly programs has a lot to do with the hormones glucagon (fat burning) and insulin (fat storing). The problem with trying to time carb intake is you body can turn off the glucagon and turn on the insulin - and unfortunately, does not switch back to glucagon for up to 24 hours. Thus you have to diet with lower calories and more cardio to get the same fat burning effect.

Roger,

Is it ever advisable to do a twice weekly carb up in the offseason if you're following a 50/20/30 plan?

I'm kind of expermienting with that right now but reading your post has me reconsidering.

greg

Greg,

If you are relatively lean and completely sticking to your 50-20-30 off season diet, yes we have seen a benefit from a twice weekly carb up. This is not a mix and match thing you can do with other plans, nor should you do it just because you FEEL depleted. You do it as part of your plan for a set period of time - and then assess if you got leaner while adding or maintaining muscle and strength.

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Roger,

I am lean (high 5's to 6%)and sticking to the 50-20-30 strictly. I'm not sure what you mean when you say it shouldn't be done just because you feel "depleted." Does that mean you shouldn't do the carb up just because that day is the day it falls on, or does it mean you should do it twice a week no matter what. Sorry if this is a dumb question.

Also, couple other questions about the carb up meal:

1) How is it determined how many grams of carbs should be eaten at that meal? Is there a certain formula for this?

2) Why does Beverly recommend those particular foods? Can others be used such as pasta?

3) Can all the carbs come from one carb source for that meal rather than several?

4) Are the vegetables necessary?

5) Is it a must to do two carb up meals per week or is one ever sufficient?

6) And lastly (this one isn't about the carb up meal) since you said Glutamine Select has been shown to be more effective at replenishing glycogen stores than 60g of simple carbs, then should Glutamine Select be avoided when following this diet plan? I ask because I thought the idea was to ensure the glycogen stores were nearly completely depleted before eating the carb up meal(s).

7) Dang #6 was supposed to be the last one wasn't it? Ok, this is a bonus question then ... Glutamine Select, is it best taken prior to, during, or post-training?

Whew, that should keep you busy!

Thanks!
greg

So I need to take the cabrs lower? I just feel that I am in the grey area of high carb and low carb. Im more towards the low carb side but I feel that I might need to just get rid of starches if i wnt to perform the carb ups

Greg,
Once you add the carb meal to your plan you should do it on your scheduled days “no matter what”.
You would not believe how many think they should only do it when they “feel” they need it, and even worse those who skip it thinking skipping it will make them burn more fat.

We have three levels of carb meals dependent on bodyweight. When we go to specific formulas it always back fires. One of the biggest mistakes people get is being too technical. In general, your carb meal should be equivalent in calories to 25-33% of your average daily caloric intake on non carb days. Carbs are 100g – 300g.

The specific foods oatmeal, sweet potato, banana, vegetables, small amount of fat has to do with the relative distribution of glycogen storage from each carbohydrate. And this gets very technical to the point its not worth trying to explain – we are much more interested in “what works”.

Can you use other foods like pasta? Yes, especially if you are off-season and relatively lean. You should go for approximately 70% starchy carbs, 20% sugary carbs (banana, etc.) and 10% fat. But, pasta certainly has more of a chance to “spill over” than carbs from oatmeal and sweet potato. Carbs should come from more than one source. Vegetables or another cellulose type of fiber does help with the carb partitioning and rate of digestion (which we want to be slower so as to not pull the insulin trigger to fat storage).

Off season – 2 regular carb meals or 1 cheat meal – you decide.

You will be using the carb meal primarily to stimulate metabolism off season. The idea of a lower carb diet is to burn more fat and preserve more muscle through natural hormone environmental considerations (e.g. glucagon, natural growth hormone release, etc) vs trying to deplete glycogen. You want to keep glycogen restored as much as you can so you can train better. Use Glutamine Select. The point was, if you are on restricted calories it is possible to restore glycogen without eating additional carbs.

7) Dang #6 was supposed to be the last one wasn't it? Ok, this is a bonus question then ... Glutamine Select, is it best taken prior to, during, or post-training? All 3. I take Up-Lift, Muscle Synergy before training, then Glutamine Select and Muscle Mass while training, Density after. But if I wasn’t taking Up-Lift and MS, I’d take Density first, then GS and Muscle Mass and more GS after training. Best way seems to be to sip it while you train.

Datas4 – watch out! You’ll end up like Greg who has so much knowledge that he is always questioning himself. You are 8 weeks out and in pretty good shape. If you are losing ½ - 1 lb per week and you have to use a new belt loop every two weeks you are on the right track. Don’t change what has gotten you there. Your first job is to stick to your nutrition plan. It is to the point where calories should not get much lower, so if your fat loss slows you should not reduce carbs without adding protein to replace it. That’s a very simple rule to follow for your first show. If you aren’t taking Glutamine Select and you are worried about reloading glycogen, then get some before trying to decide whether you need extra carb meals. ETX has a great pre contest plan on our website at http://www.bodybuildingworld.c.../12wk_nutrition.html that shows you some of the options.

Roger,

I'm not competing but really trying to cut for the beach and I am following the bev fat loss/carb up plan. I really have a hard time with the carbup's. The day following the carbup I feel awful and really bloated. Is is normal to feel this way? The 2nd day I look great though. Can I do this every 4th day instead of Monday and Thursday? Also, If I did a day (3 or 4 meals) of really clean carbs every 4th day, would that give me the same benefit as the carbup?

Thanks
Lisa

Lisa,

The carb up meal has certain metabolic advantages that spreading them out through the day, even with super clean carbs, does not.

And, if you have been reading closely you'll see there are also some problems with your body switching back and forth from carb burning to fat burning.

It is common at first to feel tired and bloated. Many start with 1/2 the recommended amounts. Or split your carb meal in two and eat 1/2 for dinner and 1/2 before bed.
Soon you'll have no problem with the carb meal. There is also a reason for every 3rd, then every 4th day - that is the optimum time.

I think you went right to the hardest level of the program. If it's too much, consider taking another look at that Fit Figure nutrition plan where you have a complex carb daily with meals one and three. It all takes time and consistency. Train, do your cardio, eat clean and you'll achieve your goal.

Thanks Roger,

Tommorrow night I am going to try smaller servings with the carbup and see if that helps. I will stick with every 3 days as well.

Should any supplements be taking with this meal? I have been taking 2Lean out and my usually Metformin extended release with the carbup.

Thanks
Lisa

Lisa, those supplements will work with the carb meal. It should be every 3rd, then 4th day. Most have carb up meal on Monday and Thursday.
Good Luck!

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Datas4 – watch out! You’ll end up like Greg who has so much knowledge that he is always questioning himself.

Ha, yes people, don't be like me! It's a blessing and a curse. More of a curse if you ask my wife.

Is there other foods that can be used for carb up even if Im on a contest diet. Could I use a baked potato instead of a sweet potato? Or even somthing like grits?