There is so much overwhelming evidence almost daily as to the benefits of spiking insulin post workout. I was wondering thoughts on this from the folks here. Very controversial topic, but as I mentioned, the evidence mounting towards doing this is becoming overwhelming. Research, research, and more research seems to indicate it.

Ron--

I dont think many have responded because this is such a debatable topic. And has been debated here and in BMJ.

I have taken this approach before. But, I also noticed that introducing these quicker carbs/sugars enticed my sweet tooth. In other words it was harder for me to maintain my diet. I had more cravings.

I did get rather big for me while doing this but as I said I wasnt able to watch my diet as closely. So I dont know which contributed to the weight gain. I also did not stay below 10% while doing this approach.

If I remember correctly AST preaches using a simple carb mix after training by using their creatine load mixed with their VP2 whey.

I personally like Mass Maker, have seen good recovery, strength and mass gains using it and think I will stay with this approach.

Ive written this before. But, I think someone should use themselves as a guinea pig on this approach. Take a skinfold before and after trying this post workout method and see what happens. The biggest challenge for me was then taming the sweet tooth that I seemed to awake.

In science of course you are just spiking your insulin post workout. Which, will rob you of any fat burning mechanism you had accomplished during workout. But we also know that insulin is a weight gainer. I think both approaches have merit and it may just be that you could use them in different stages of your training and depending on your goals. 4 weeks with the AST approach (bulking), 4 weeks with Mass (lean mass gains) Maker, then for the ultimate hardening, just do 4 weeks with Muscle Provider post workout. This would undoubtedly give the best of all worlds and may not be a bad idea. Take care,

JT--

HEY RON !! Hello!! Hope all is well. I have no insight on this topic....just butting in to say hey...AND I am always have a carb post work out usually its oatmeal, not a simple carb...as contest looms closer I fear it will have to be grapefruit.

Leslie

Hey Leslie....nice to hear from you. Long time.

Anyway, I know this is a controversial subject, and I just had a long and heated debate on another board, and took alot of flak. Wanted some "freindly" outlooks I guess. Here is a something, and I have read many studies on this now that seem to be pointing in the direction of this, a mixture of dextrose and Maltodextrin.

Glycogen replacement strategies similar to the PW shake have their roots in decades of research( even in the 60's Dr. Bergstrom identified uncanny increases in glycogen resturation via PW spiking ), and rather then dying out, more scientific evidence has backed it. In countless areas. And I mean countless, it is an overwelming principle accepted in scientific literature, and in journals accross the globe

I would state that the benefits are endless. A few of which include


Quicker and superior glycogen synthesis
Greater myofibrilar hydration - which endless studies show to be anabolic

Supression of Cortisol - And yes, I can back this up with studies showing that it does enhance muscle growth tremendously compared to non spiking!
Supressed Protein degredation post workout

And much more. It is scientifically sound. And, the evidence is extremely overwelming.

If one is to worry about insulin sensitivity, there are many theraputical ways of going about increasing it, without sacraficing the proven muscular gains which accompany the PW spike.

By the way, in reference to the first reply, I am not a big fan of the AST approach. This approach advocated is to drink half of your shake immediately, then follow with the other half sipping it for 45 min. to 1 hour, then 30 min. later have a good meal.

I might add that that the quote in there from glycogen strategies on is not from me, but one thread that was quoted to me. I just copied and pasted it.

So then Ron...what do you use or have you been using. I think MM has maltosextrin, are you adding dextrose via juice or something. Thx,

Jason--

I can't speak for Ron, but most people who use the high GI PW appraoch, use a whey isolate, dextrose, and malto dextrin powders.

So most people would take 1-2 sccops Muscle Provider, and like 20 grams of each dextrose and maltodextrin, or more depending on bodyweight.

what is a good source of dextrose

Group

We debated this on the old boards.

I think what people leave out is what the individauls current bodyfat level is and what their goals are.

There is no doubt that simple carbs post workout is a good idea. It shift the body to a catabolic state and increases nutrient uptake by the muscle. A good idea for an individual interested in gaining lean mass. The same individual is probably very lean.

Not a good idea for an individual that is not lean and is looking to lean out further. For this person simple carbs PW will shut down the bodies process of converting stored fat to glucose. The article on the home page by Serrano alludes to this as well.

In regards to research, who participated in teh study and what was their goal. Almost everyone will see the benefits of an insulin spike, essentially everythign Ron has mentioned in his posts above.

Was bodyfat measure before and after the studies? What could be noted in terms of impact on body composition? Sure the scale weight went up, was it water and lean tissue or water, lean tissue and fat?

Did individuals with a higher bodyfat percentage gain more fat than muscle?

Again there is no doubt that simple carbs for recovery post workout are a great idea. Just depends on the individual and his/her goals.

**Even Poliquin has noted and recognized that the individual most be taken into account before a blanket statement to use simple sugars PW. He has even refined his recommendations in written text regardin PW, recovery and fat loss.

If it was this simple we would all be taking Cell Tech and modeling for six page ads.

Cheap Dextrose = Grape Juice
Malto Dextrin = See your local home brew shop

Great post!

Ray

I got literally massacred on another board over this, if it had been a fistfight, I would have been in bad shape. Here is the consensus I get...use 1/2 your bodyweight in carbs and protein. Splitting up the carbs 50/50 between dextrose and malto. Dextrose can be found anywhere, pennies. Any online retailer has it, and then the other half maltodextrin. For instance, if you weigh 200 lbs., 100 gr., 50 protein, and 25 dextrose and 25 malto. Drink half immediately, then sip the other half for the next hour to insure no drastic dropoff and regulate insulin levels back to normal. Then 30 minutes later, have a good meal. If you are dieting, then cut this amount in half(protein,dextrose, malto) supposedly the anabolic nature of it will not affect in any adverse way, simply stemming the cortisol release, etc. Then follow the same procedure as above.