How does everyone feel about beans in a contest diet. Should you stay away from them or could you substitute a 1/4 or 1/2 cup every once in a while for the sweet potato. I personally love black and red beans and it would be great if I could have them sometimes.

Red and black beans are fantastic sources of carbohydrate and fiber! You can probably get away with doing beans until about 4-5 weeks out. Then switch over completely to proven sources: sweet potatos, red potatos, oatmeal, brown rice, etc.

Chunk may in fact be right, but I wouldnt do it. Its a contest diet, and whether you like a food or not and its generally healthy doesnt mean its the best to maximize fat loss. Your goal with your diet is to MAXIMIZE fat loss, I choose the foods that will do that.

Id love to have cheerios sometimes when I diet and it might not hurt, but whole oats are better.

I dont know maybe Im cranky and splittng hairs, but i wouldnt do it.

Wow somebody is cranky lol jk. I was just checking, I wanted to make sure i had all angles covered thats all.

probably, its a friday night, I worked all week and the wife made me clean the kitchen and bathrooms for a party tomorrow, not my idea of a fun friday evening.

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ed and black beans are fantastic sources of carbohydrate and fiber!

Excellent source of methane, too. Jason would really be upset having to clean the walls, carpet along with the A/C filters.

The best way to utilize beans would be adding rice to give it a complete amino acid profile. Carbs, fast energy and adding a slight variety of a very tight contest diet. Keep in mind, to limit them to about 4 weeks out.

Now there, that wasn't too bad, was it?

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Originally posted by Frank:

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ed and black beans are fantastic sources of carbohydrate and fiber!

Excellent source of methane, too. Jason would really be upset having to clean the walls, carpet along with the A/C filters.

The best way to utilize beans would be adding rice to give it a complete amino acid profile. Carbs, fast energy and adding a slight variety of a very tight contest diet. Keep in mind, to limit them to about 4 weeks out.

Now there, that wasn't too bad, was it?

Whoa, tru. I guess I just assumed that Jared was adding rice to his beans? That is what I have allways done and have never just eaten beans alone... I forget to comprehend what people are asking sometimes...

These guys are probably right, Ill say that with one caveat, if you factor these into the macros I gave you without going over and taking into account the protein, etc., it should work.

****, I believe I could get cut up on lucky charms as my breakfast with my eggs as long as I kept them within my cutting macros desinged on saturation principles for my lean body mass.

So if Im to take in 210P/172CHO/40 fats if I keep the carbs I take in in that range, I bet I could still cut, at some point it would have to be cleaner.

My GDA protocol would help too. I had my buddy a paramedic check his blood sugar 20 mins after top round and a 10 oz white potato, which is a huge insulin releasing meal becuase a) top round has a ton of aminos and b) white potato is high glycemic, with the GDA protocol it was 110, so none of that meal is feeding fat thats all shuttling to the muscle cell....

So....yeah if you know what you are doing you could get away with this I believe...

Im in the process of getting a glucometer to test things out. But, I know the steak/white potato meal would normally put blood sugar above 200 and inevitabley feed fat.

Im going to test how well they work with certain foods so I know the response and how well I can control insulin release with them....

We could get carried away with all the testing and it is a really that interesting, isn't it?!

The one thing about that meal Jason, it is a whole meal. Fats, potato and protein all taken in at the same time. Not one of them is eaten alone. The Glycemic Index only rates one food, not food combinations.

If you were to eat the white potato with no other foods or toppings, that is the number. If you add one TBS of olive oil, mix it thoroughly with the potato, it will complicate digestion, slow everything down and you'll have a slower infusion of sugars.

One of the problems with Type 2 diabetes is there's not enough insulin produced to handle surges of sugar and that's right, amino acids. The worst type of diet for Type 1 diabetics is...LOW CARB, especially if they go into ketosis.

Too often, we think of insulin spikes as bad, but a Muscle Provider shake can spike insulin, too. At what point we want those spikes can be important part of meal planning.

Going way off topic here. LOL

Rice/beans should be the mix for a higher carb substitution, not a green vegetable sub. Use rice/beans with chicken or beef. Brown rice also has the "resistant starch" as potatoes. There would be no insulin surge, the kind you would get from eating a candy bar. Oh...speaking of, check the Index for Snickers.

As for Lucky Charms? Is that with UMP? There's no other comparison for a cheat meal like Shorty would use!!

Hey, SHORTY! Where ya been?! ShortDawg?! I'm callin'

The edit for those that may have not read, "Type 1" is added to the fourth paragraph.

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Frank, actually I think its very interesting. I was able to diet on more carbs than anyone on this board would attempt and win my weight class at a large untested regional show, why? Becuase I now know how to control insulin. I also beat two guys who smoked me before in order to do that. I was fuller and drier than ever and knowing how to control insulin and still eat more was the cause of that.

I think every bodybuilder should know how meals effect their insulin on some level. Thats why my friend ran a test and why Ill run some and share the results....with gdas and without....

I agree the glycemic index is based on eating the white potato or any carb for that matter by itself. However, try to eat top round and white potato you WILL be over 200 and at that threshold you will feed some fat. Stay between 100-180 and you are golden and with GDAs you can do this, take a lot of carbs and still not feed fat.

Im actually a better bodybuilder now having the ability to control these things to some extent of course. I cant control the response to a T (but I can keep it out of fat feeding zone with more food than normal), but top round and white will definitely put you above where you really want to be on a cut, unless you know how to control it.

Anyways, Im not trying to be terse, but I really do find this stuff interesting.

Email Kelly ask her how her fat loss is coming and how she is looking? You'll then understand, I have her controlling her insulin with GDAs and eating more carbs than she probably would have at her size.....

Jared sorry, yes the beans, try it man, see how you progress....I hope our diversion didnt annoy you too much but this is how we all learn...

BTW, I havent checked snickers but I bet its middle of the road due to the fats from peanuts, same with peanut M&Ms the GI isnt that bad, I had a whole big bag last night after back workout...LOL, but took my GDAs and staying lean and mean.....

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The worst type of diet for diabetics is...LOW CARB, especially if they go into ketosis

This comment caught my attention because so many people I know -- including my parents -- are Type 2 diabetics and I keep trying to get them to CUT BACK on their carbs.

I'm not sure, Frank, why you say a low-carb diet is inappropriate for diabetics. Despite the conventional "wisdom" of the AMA and even the American Diabetes Association, there is a movement afoot to try to convince diabetics that carbs should be minimized in their diet. I have one client whose physician prescribed for him 40 grams of CHO per meal over 5 meals. Of course, he has to take a hefty does of insulin and sometimes other drugs too. You have to wonder how much of this carb emphasis stems from research underwritten by the drug companies????

This article explains the near-miraculous results one physician is having by requesting her diabetic patients to eliminate or severely restrict carbs:

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealt...CM20000012281eac____

That was published in Men's Health a year ago. The current newsstand issue of the magazine has another article on the same topic.

Also, let's not confuse ketosis -- a healthy condition in which the brain switches to ketones for fuel in the absence of glucose-- with diabetic ketoacidosis, which is a life-threatening condition in which the blood becomes acidic from excess glucose build-up.

Just some food for thought, because as a personal trainer (and concerned son of two diabetics) this issue is close to my heart.

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I think every bodybuilder should know how meals effect their insulin on some level. Thats why my friend ran a test and why Ill run some and share the results....with gdas and without....

Hey Jason. I too will be purchasing a glucometer and and testing my insulin response to various foods with and without GDAs. I look forward to seeing your results.

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Also, let's not confuse ketosis -- a healthy condition in which the brain switches to ketones for fuel in the absence of glucose-- with diabetic ketoacidosis, which is a life-threatening condition in which the blood becomes acidic from excess glucose build-up.

Actually, I should have specified, I was referring to type 1 where going low to no carb without consulting their doctor. It is far too easy for the Type 1 compared to the average person to go to ketoacidosis once they reach ketosis.

While type 2 is a diabetic condition and a problem, in many cases, diet and exercise, the type 2 condition is no longer a problem and can be reversed. Another is to have a drop of 10% overall weight or fat can begin to make a difference. So, confusing in the statement referring to a general diabetic condition was really meant for Type 1 and yes, that statement would cause confusion because it was in the same paragraph. Type 2 SHOULD cut back and control the amount of carbs, even going to a lower carbed diet.

In fact, I placed my parents on the 50P:20C:30F for a short time. It is much more difficult the older they get because of added medication and limiting the types of foods, even grapefruit, greens high in vitamin K, etc. Since I'm no longer near them, they're not totally out of control but there's no one there to tighten up their intake. Too many desserts make their way into the house.

There is also the Type 2 LADA, eventually becomes type 1, which I hope is not the case with your parents. LADA is in our family.

Type 2 with meds and beginning an exercise program, it seems like they need a little more balance with higher carbs (40-50%), not a low carb approach (the older ones seem to lose energy), but that I feel, shouldn't be ruled out, especially if their blood sugar levels remain high.

AMA and others say to limit carbs, but they always seem to throw a wrench in my reasoning. The last one I saw stated 55% to 65% of the diet should be carbs and to concentrate on grains and fruits. I'm like, "HUH?! You can't convert glucose, but that percentage is recommmended?"

I think every bodybuilder should know how meals effect their insulin on some level. Thats why my friend ran a test and why Ill run some and share the results....with gdas and without....

You are absolutely right! While we are all slightly different, there are some basics to lay the ground rules.

Yep...I have a glucometer and have used it. My problem is they don't last long in the house. I'm with Steve, I'd be looking forward to what you've found. I believe I may do some experimenting this weekend, too because I just got my shipment of Beverly. The only supp I have used in the last year is UMP.


What time factor are you using?

Time after meal has started or upon completion, etc.? I'd be curious to compare some notes or PM me and we'll try different foods to see how each is affected.

One other note about low carb and Type 1 and Type 2 diabetics, the most important thing to do is to monitor glucose levels. I have been shocked at the amount of Type 2 that do not monitor their levels, and the Type 1 that misuse insulin just to support bad habits. Take the pills and go on about their business. On that basis, I gave a general statement about not going low carb. A person may change their sugar levels without knowing how the low carb diet is going to affect them. I had one Type 2 try the low carb approach with a glucometer. After two days, levels reached 350 and medication was definitely needed as it could not be controlled by diet alone.

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frank,

Ill test at 15 mins, 30 mins more than likely....with the gda protocol and then the same meal witohut..

If you have other ideas let me know...

Im just going to more than likley test my bodybuilding meals, but Ill also test some big cheat meals that you know should put me very high.....and with the gda protocol I bet I stay below 200.....

should be late next week, gotta get the strips...

I was just asking about some beans lol....

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insulin response to various foods with and without GDAs

Steve, are you thinking what I am? How well or will it work with my parents/family? I doubt if it can work with my Dad. He has far too many meds.