Ok Sandy, I'll start it. One thing that really helps me is to focus on "eating for a purpose." We all train for a purpose, we need to think about eating for a purpose. We all know that squats and deadlifts are 2 of the best exercises you can do to promote overall growth, are they the most "fun" to do? Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, we do them because we want the end result they provide.

We need to focus on eating the same way. What purpose does that Krispy Kreme perform? Pleasure? I'd argue that it causes more pain after the fact because you know it's infested with sugar and does nothing for you nutritionally.

That's my 2 cents to get the ball rolling....

Dwayne

I think there are a few parts to this.......

Changing our definition of reward or success is exactly what we need to do.

Rewards/Success
Clearly people successful at changing and maintaining their physiques do not do it with a goal of having a big bowl of ice cream on the weekend. Most likely they have "reprogrammed" their defintion of reward/success and do not think "gee I have worked hard all week and eat ice cream on Saturday." To them success or a reward is a result, achieving a goal they set. Maybe it is abs for the first time or winning a competition.

Can Have vs. Can Not Have
Nutrition is kind of like the saying "Happiness is wanting what you have." Diets fail when people focus not on what they should have and WHY they should have it and instead on what they can not have. Those that maintain low levels of bodyfat have learned to like the foods that allow them to achieve their goals. They focus on why these foods are important to them achieving their goals. They focus not or better yet have forgotten all about the foods that will not allow them to achieve their goals. They do not find themselves feeling deprived because they are not eating pizza. Instead they find themselves happy to enjoy a meal that will help them achieve their goal.

Having written this I think it all comes back to goal setting. How can you get what you want if you have not decided what it is?

So I guess in a nutshell

We need to have

Have a goal
Define what success is and how it will be rewarded
Focus on what we should do and why and not on what we shouldn't.

Starting to ramble now..

Ray

That is a great way to look at it! It is really hard for me to keep that in mind. Impulse takes over a lot of the time. Working on that problem. Another thing that keeps me on the straight and narrow is when i am eating clean and used to the diet, bad food makes me ill. 2 minutes on the lips generally means 20 on the pot . Sorry for the image.

A few points...

My general rule is I eat for function; to build muscle and shape my physique to the best of its abilities.

I was never a junk food person and wasnt raised on fast food. For me I truly enjoy my eggs and oats in the morning or my beef and salad with Paul Newmans. They are wholesome and filling meals that actually taste good to me. So eating right once I discovered how has never been a huge problem.

I do enjoy the occasional piece of cheesecake or chocolate cake. I really dont see them as rewards, but generally as special occasion type things that I dont obsess over. In other words I know its not the norm for me, so if I have it I enjoy the **** out of it, and move on.

This approach has worked for me and will continue to work for me. As supportive as my friends and family are, they constantyly say I dont know how you eat the same things every day. I answer that I truly like my food I eat, it works for me, and I despise the alternative if I ate like everyone else.

Good post...Im interested in what others have to offer.

Jason Theobald

www.geocities.com/chezburger10/JASONTHEOBALDBIO.html

ETX hit it right on the head with this statement "Diets fail when people focus not on what they should have and WHY they should have it and instead on what they can not have."

If you think of your diet in terms of denial it is a burden, if you think of it in terms of a reward it becomes a tool to get that reward - the positive benefits of the clean diet.

As JT does I still enjoy an occasional glass of wine or bottle of beer or some ice cream or cheese cake, but it is an occasional thing. Often times when I know that I'm going to cheat a little I'll cut back on the quantity in my regular meals to help off set the extra "bad" calories. Sometimes I'll just chalk it up to an extra carb meal, albiet not the best carbs for me- lol

Now that I have been eating clean for several years I really don't enjoy foods with a lot of sugar in them. If I have a donut, or a piece of cake I always regret it afterwards. I'll have a small piece of cake at a birthday party just to be polite, but often dump half of it.

A clean diet really does make you feel better and eating more often evens out your energy levels during the day. Both big mental pluses that help reinforce the clean diet habits for me.

Eating less than you want to in order to cut bf for a contest is a whole other issue. I know why I do that, but it does not bring with it the same mental benefits of a clean off-season diet. But the reward is still there - it is just a different and more focused reward. To help make my pre-contest diet more tolerable I focus on the science behind it. It is again a tool, a scientific tool, that I use to reach my goal.

I beleive that the mental aspects to every component of bbing and fitness is what allows you to succeed; diet, training intensity, injury avoidance are all thinking activities.

VA MadDog

I hope I am not getting too far off track of this topic, but when it comes to mental aspects of 'dieting,' I think its not just the internal aspect as discussed so far, but also external influences, and by that I mean the real pressures from others when it comes to eating fat-laden foods/sweets. The people in my work area I promise you, never let any opportunity get by to celebrate anything, if its not someone's coming in new or going away or having a baby or just patting themselves on the back for something, and it always involves food, and none of it is healthy, you know the typical potluck stuff, most of which is sweets treats or otherwise fatty. Even at work related meetings, yesterday at a meeting on the table was not just one chocolate cake, but also a vanilla bean cake with some rich homemade white chocolate frosting, also a *******/meat/cheese tray. I pass the trays on by when they come my way, and I have to say I really have no desire for it, but the supervisor sitting next to me kept pushing my empty plate at me saying, "C'mon, c'mon" and I swear I think she was thinking I'm some kind of anti-social non conformist or something, simply because I choose not to partake. Then these same people are always whining about their kangaroo pouches that they can never get rid of and are on different fad diets from month to month. I've decided the next time I am in that situation, I am going to take alittle piece of something just to have on the plate & I may push it around a bit to look good, so I don't stand out, then just dump it on the way out, just so I don't have to put up with that again. I'm telling you, that woman was really acting like she thought I was trying to be difficult or something. I was starting to wonder why the heck she cared so much if I ate any or not, weird. I actually don't even like the word 'diet' because 'normal' people use it to mean some whacked out different way of eating for 3 weeks-then-go-back-to your old way and see if you keep the weight off. People see me eating my egg whites in the a.m. and have to ask, "what kind of diet are you on?" I try to squash the conversation as soon as I can because I have come to see that they really don't want to know what is good for them, I just respond by saying I am not on a diet, I'm just eating clean. When your answer is not that you are on some new crazy Hollywood or grapefruit or what-not diet that you can lose 10 lbs every week, but rather its clean eating habits meant to last a lifetime, then they don't have much more to say to you. When you start talking consistent exercise and consistent clean eating, they realize it takes a bit of willpower, work, and consistency, their eyes glaze over. No matter how much information the intelligent part of them may have, most people just want a quick easy fix.

If ever I find myself thinking I am craving something that would be detrimental to my goals, I sometimes bring myself back by thinking how good it feels to be in control and not let the food control me. Taking full responsibility for what I consume has made a big difference in my will power. All that said, I do appreciate good cooking or when my sister-in-law takes the time to make her awesome white chocolate cheesecake, but I don't get crazy over it. I just appreciate the skinniest sliver I can cut, and I do it because I choose to do it, not because someone pressured me to.

Pam,

I wouldnt put something on your plate at work to appease your co-workers. They just want to bring you down. Basically they dont understand your choices and know they cant resist, so they want to make you do the same. I for one would not give them the satisfaction. Ive been in the same types of meetings where bringing donuts was the norm, I never took one, and actually reveled in the thought that they were jealous of my convictions not to eat junk. I could tell they thought I was a bit odd, and they wished they could make the same decisions. But, I like not going with the flow, I always have. Its good to be different.

Ive realized when I do stray from the diet its never during the day for mere work or school functions and its on my terms. Usually involves a family setting or a dinner out with my girlfriend. I guess I associate sweets as an occasional thing to keep for times with my family gatherings which dont happen all the time.

Jason Theobald

www.geocities.com/chezburger10/JASONTHEOBALDBIO.html

Just a insight here. Back in the 50's and 60's bodybuilders never found it hard to stick to good wholesome diets. In fact that was the easy part back then. The Bill Pearl's, Steve Reeves and Vince Goranda's of yesteryear never cheated on diets. Now perhaps it was because there was less fast food around and fewer choices. However, my opinion is that we have fallen into a instant gratification society and most of us no longer set goals. Why should we have to set goals, everything is usually laied out for us! One thing I stress when I work with peopel is changing the mindset. Forget that the cheese cake will tast good for a moment and remember that your quality of life can be forever impacted by eating **** all the time. Set short and long term goals and work towards your own progress. Start with "I want to eat good all day" and progress towards "I have a excellent diet year round" Its not as hard as we make it out to be, we (those of us under 50) were never taught how to work hard toward something you really want, and appreciate it after you attain it. I am no exception and need to kick myself too. I just looked at myself in the mirror for the first time in two weeks and I have added LOTS more then I thought. My new short term goal is "eat better until after the hollidays and minimize additonal fat gain" and my long term "get back to 6% or so by Febuary 14th" as for instant gratification, a bite goes as far as the whole pie if you chew really, really slow.

Sully

sulcop...you may have to adjust this statement a bit ...."we (those under 50) were never taught how to work hard toward something you really want, and appreciate it after you attain it"..... I being 43 was thought by my parents that you have to work hard for something you really want. It takes time dedication and persistence to reach a goal, fullfill a dream. And that the limits we face are those we put on ourselves. My mom always told me that when I grew up I could be/do anything I desired IF if I was willing to do what it takes to reach those goal..that means WORK for it.

Leslie

Leslie,

Yes, there are exceptions and they surround us everywhere. This was not a blanket statement and not directed towards those like us, bodybuilders, who live by the phylosophy of hard work and dedication. My statement is directed to the 24 year olds with pot bellies, and the 33 year olds who think liposuction and implants are the road towards physical achievement. Lets face it, you are probably the best built person in your graduating class. I know nothing about you but would be willing to be you are successful in your corear and family. Now out of your peer group how many others can say the same? I went to my class reunion last year. I was tho only person with abbs, not divorced, owned my house outright and enjoyed my jod and was actually doing something I loved. I was also the only one who played with my kids on a daily basis, had dinner at the table as a family and outwordly believed in God. LT we are the exception, and part of that reason is why we became bodybuilders.

Sully

Sully, point well taken. And for the most part yes you guessed me right. Though at a Class Reunion my identical twin sister, who doesn't train even close to my level, runs a REAL CLOSE second, in street clothes anyway!

As far as the topic of this thread...I won't even start on it or I will be sitting here typing for an hour and i must go !!

Leslie

My apologies if I am posting on the wrong thread.

Cheating is never an option for me. At least I try and fool myself into believing it isn't. Temptation? Sure, no doubt. Every day. Especially 2-3 weeks before a show when I unknowingly find myself walking down the breakfast cereal aisle at the supermarket foaming at the mouth, staring at the boxes.

The strange part being, when the show is over, I never feast on these goodies anyway.

Friends and co-workers are always commenting on how "disciplined" I am with my eating habits. But from my point of view, they're wrong. It has nothing to do with discipline. It's all about desire.

How seriously do you really wish to lose those 20 xtra lbs., or win your class at a bodybuilding event, or put on an additional 6-8 lbs. of lean muscle?

To me, discipline is only a by-product of DESIRE. How bad do you wantit?

Aram

I just wanted to say "Thank you" to whoever posted the little gem about "rewarding" yourself with junk food, for example, why would you, after eating clean & staying focused for weeks, reward yourself by indulging in cr a p food which is exactly counterproductive to that same goal you have been so focused on. Its a simple thought, but I find myself chanting ideas like that in my head when I start thinking oh you've been so good, you should go ahead & have this or that just this once... It doesn't happen very often, only when I have gone a wee bit too long of a stretch between meals, when the hungry monster starts to stir. But anyway, just wanted to say thanks to whoever shared that, its a new tool I am using to help me stay good.

Hey Pam....I have the same issues at work. There's always donuts, cake, and whatnot in the general area. Last Friday we had a big communication meeting, lunch provided -- pizza and salad. I thought wouldn't it be nice if they got something healthy for a change. Since I made a pretty big change in my appreance, people always ask me how I did it, I used to try and describe the diet, everyone says, oh you're on the Atkins. After a while, I just say that I eat healthy.

Eventually, they stop asking. A friend of mine competes, she works in the same department as I do, often times we will vent to each other about all the junk food.

I agree with JT, I wouldn't bend to the pressures. Educate these people about eating healthy. Would those same people ridicule someone that passed up the meat tray beacuse they are vegetarian? I'll bet they wouldn't.

Dwayne

Just some thoughts I had...

I think that the "mental aspect" is influenced greatly by our perception of food and its place in our lives, and most importantly how food impacts the goals we set for ourselves.

Do you need to be 5%bf to be healthy? ah..no, How about an 18 inch arm to survive? Not....

Competitive Bodybuilding nutrition has special elements that prepare a competitor for competition. I do not believe this should be confused with the person who wants to loose a few pounds or is a casual lifter/exercise enthusiast who basically wants to be at a healthy bodyfat.. for men most likely under 15% and for women 22% or so. There is much more fudge room (literally)in their nutrition plan and should be, in order for them to adhere to a real lifestyle change that will lead to better overall health.

Competitive Bodybuilders have a choice to make. The stronger your desire to do well the stronger your purpose as Dwane said, the stronger I believe you will be at adhearing to your nutrition plan.

If "whats in it for you" is not strong enough, temptation will get in the way.

Some of us have more "issues" with food then others. As competitors we battle many of those issues/food associations.

There are cultural associations with food. Such as celebrating with food, which has gone on from the beginning of time. Remember too that food was not as plentiful as it is today. Food and celebration have always been a part of enjoying life. It just that the foods we have today are available everyday rather than just at a limited time of the year. And people overindulge as a society because it is available, rather than limit their consumption to just special occasions.

There can be true addictions to certain foods...
Food can be a real drug. We eat it to comfort us, to feel better, Certain foods like sugar give us a temporary energy high and release certain brain chemicals,& thats why we can be drawn to them, crave them. etc...
We eat to feel better when we are down, or fill time when we are excited or anxious, often not because we are hungry.

Just as in any other sport certain sacrifices are required in order to be your very best the day of the competition. Nutrition happens to be one of the most crucial of a Bodybuilders disaplines.

I do believe it comes down to how important the goal is to you. The stronger that feeling, the more deeply you desire the outcome the more successful you will be at doing whatever it takes to reach it. If it were easy everyone would do it.

Just my random thoughts.


Tom

Tom A...Interesting that you mention "perception" as I was just talking about this to someone the other day. A lot of it has to do with how you were raised. I grew up in the country, both of my parents grew up on farms. We ate simple foods, lots from the garden. But most importantly, we got a lot of it. My Mom and Dad wouldn't let us leave the table until we finished out plates. My Mom especially would always equate being healthy with having a good appetite. Something was wrong it you weren't eating until you were full. I am now trying to learn how to get away from that mind set.

Food and celebration will never go away, it's everyone's favorite past time. Most people that I hang out with know how I eat, so when we are together, I either have something if I can, or I just hang out and drink a bunch of diet pop.

More ramblings from me....

Dwayne